new discovery user

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  D_Fru 1 month, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #18517

    blan
    Participant

    hello folks,

    doesn’t seem like alot of action on here but figured i’d post up anyways.

    My experience with streaming started with my galaxy s7 phone and tidal hifi account cast via wifi to a chromecast audio puck into my h/k avr 500…..the

    sound surprised me to say the least (really wasn’t expecting much for $35) after messing with that for a few months i decided to ‘upgrade’ thinking was i

    needed a new reciever anyhow ( h/k was almost 20 yrs old and well abused) i looked for a all in one streaming reciever….that boiled down to a yamaha rn803

    that had built in wifi with ‘musiccast’ (yamahas digital control app which included ‘tidal’) got that hooked up to sound reasonably well but it had a hard time

    filling the shoes of the ‘high current’ harmon kardon amp section……the new digital dsp gadgetry that comes with the app made up for the difference so i

    ‘live with it’!

    i’ve been with it for a few months now and concluded that ‘musiccast’s streaming user interaction sux! especially with tidal (which it lists as ‘built in’ I

    ended up using the chromecast dongle and a apple tablet even though it doesnt sound as good because it was so painful to use the yamaha app…..yamaha was no

    help, even though its a well documented problem. so back to looking for streaming options it was…..choices in my price range came down to the arcam r-play,

    bluesound node 2i, and cambridge cxn v2 on the high end, noticed the elac towards the end of my search and just happened to find a open box return (as new) on

    ebay which i won for $650 (figured that kinda savings was worth the chance) got it last wk and it didn’t look as though it was ever out of the box so that was

    good ….after about 2 hours of playing around trying to get it going on my wifi and then getting it to upgrade also learning the essentials app i finally got

    it to make some music and was fairly impressed….i also understood that dac’s need time to burn in so i didn’t get too exited about anything lacking (which it

    was a little flat and boomy at first)

    so i spend a couple days familiarizing with it and like whats happening in performance and also sound (which was blooming nicely after about 20 hrs) that keeps

    getting better with use.

    today i got to wondering why elac didn’t use a 2 channel mono configuration with the two cirrus logic chips instead of wasting all that potential sound quality

    on ‘dual zones’ after researching the board layout i concluded that if i synced the two sets of analog outs and used the left channel of ‘output 1’ and the

    right channel of ‘output 2’ i might potentially be freeing up alot of digital real estate!? got a wild hair and figured i’d try it and gotta say the reults

    were absolutely stunning! better stereo seperation, soundstage more fwd and cohesive, bass more natural, much more ‘air’ at the top…..in other words just

    better everywhere.

    Now you Elac engineers cans say all you want about that not making a diffence or it may even harm the unit and i suppose that would an opinion but how could

    something that sounds so good be wrong? if this has already been ‘figured out’ then excuse my wasted bandwidth….if not i’d try it if your looking to tweak

    every ounce of performance you can get.

    only downsides to the discvery i can see are sometimes (from the start) the music will play a second or so and then skip to the next song going on down the

    line….if i force it to back up (sometimes it takes two or three try) it will ‘catch’ and play correctly…. anyone have a fix for that? already tried

    resetting router and server…have not tried a hard reset of discovery yet….wanted to exhaust all options first…..also it has nothing to do with switching

    outputs, it was doing it prior to that.

    also can this unit be used as a full roon endpoint if connected in network with a roon ‘nucleus’ or small green computer ‘sonic transporter i5’ for example?

    thanks, blan

    • This topic was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  blan.
  • #18585

    blan
    Participant

    here’s an update….

    the skipping tracks were due to me having my tidal app open on my tablet at the same time playing tidal on the discovery….it hasn’t done it since i stopped doing that.

    and as far as using one left and one right channel of each analog outs is definately a drastic improvement to sq ……i just got done a/b’ing it just to see and theres no mistaking the difference…..for those that might want to try it just combine analog output 1 with output 2 in ‘settings’ connect left channel to left side of output 1 / and right channel to right side of output 2 make sure the volume is at 100% in settings on both sides.
    i also find the ‘target volume’ best at 23 lufs (default)

    and to answer my own question it seems as though someone else on here is using full roon with discovery as an endpoint so i suppose that it is possible…any input on that would be appreciated.

    all in all quite impressed with this unit…….i’m wondering why its not caught on more than it has….also surprised that elac seems a bit distanced from it?

  • #18730

    blan
    Participant

    another update…..
    was having an issue with what turned out to be ‘clock slip’ between the two ‘zones’ when used in my (left/1 – right/2) configuration.

    things were noticeably “un-harmonious” at times between left and right channels…so after some self education on the ‘master clock prority’ settings i came to the conclusion that you must set up one ‘zone’ as highest proirity 1 (zone 1 in this case) and then set the other (zone 2) at priority 2 or ‘default’ (i tried both and stayed with priority 2 on zone 2) could tell a big difference in cohesiveness by making the change from previously choosing ‘default’ on both zones ….but could not tell as big a difference (if any) between priority 2 and default on zone 2 (i chose 2 just to make it a ‘defined’ setting)

    gotta say….. this discovery is a little swiss army knife of streamers that has certainly furthered my education…..back to that liquid smooth music i’d thought was lost to the dreaded ‘clock slip’ !

    fyi…..clock slip is only relative if your using different zones….in my case i believe it was more apparant because zone 1 runs my left stereo channel and zone 2 runs my right…..in your face one might say.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  blan.
  • #18732

    D_Fru
    Participant

    I am also enjoying the Discovery Server. I have had mine since July. I am going to have to your split output idea ( although this thing sounds great as is ). The only issue I have with mine is every once in awhile it will lose the core connection and just stop playing. This only happens about once every 2 weeks or so. I have to remove power, reconnect it and it works great again. Thanks for the tip about the master clock setting I will be sure to change that when I try using the 2 dac chips.

    • #18735

      blan
      Participant

      glad i can be of assistance…..
      i’ve always been one to try and get the most sound out of what i have….can’t afford the ‘high end’ stuff!

      another thing that really woke the discovery up was the ifi dc purifier 2….it was $99 and worth every penny.
      i had no idea that power conditioning made such a difference….i knew such things existed and mainly thought it was overkill, but now i know different and am actually saving for a furman elite AC conditioner/surge protector for my amp,dvd,and tv.

      as far as drop outs are concerned there are many factors involved and i’ve slowly been eliminating issues….i had to erase and download the OS a couple times and finally got the versions in sync on version 49 (at first i had version 49 with version 51) so you might could look at that….be aware you need to backup everything and even then will be starting from scratch on settings and such….also make sure your updated to ‘1.5’.

      another thing that helped is i got a better cable (cat 6) for the router….then to ice the cake i got a new ifi ‘i power’ wall wart for the router ($49) and now have not had a drop out since……they say the power supply for the discovery is a quality peice so i didn’t worry about it, just did the inline purifier for the discovery unit.
      i’m sure that drop outs are going to occur as sure as death and taxes but these efforts minimized the frequency maybe even ‘fixed’ it i dare say!

      good cables (i know…debatable!) , i use pangea ‘lower end’ rca cables and i believe them to make a little difference when i a/b them……i suppose every little bit helps.

      i’m really exited about the whole streaming technology and feel like the discovery is a awesome gateway ‘drug’ just wish it had mqa capabilty!

      blan

      • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  blan.
      • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  blan.
    • #18739

      D_Fru
      Participant

      Sounds like some great ideas. I have always suspected my dropouts were related to the router. will give your suggestions a try and see what happens. My dropouts were not often just a nuisance.
      As for the backup The Discovery does automatic backups of its settings and I have my music on a hard drive plugged into the back which I unplug from time to time and do a drag and drop copy to another drive.
      I have looked at the DC Purifier and for the price it is probably worth giving a try. Thanks again for the suggestions. Dan

  • #18740

    blan
    Participant

    no problem dan,

    thats what i need to work on next is proper backup…..i’ve yet to make this dropbox actually work!

    i do have one little glitch thats rather annoying, sometimes when letting playlists just run in order i’ll get a skipped track or two or three…..
    it doesnt seem to be a network issue more like its picking up on a pattern i may have inadvertently introduced while ‘poking around’ my music….by this i mean (maybe?) its picking up on the fact previously i did not play a whole track and skipped to the next? this is just a theory of course and the assumption is based on the fact this whole roon thing seems to have a touch of artificial intelligence!
    has yours ever done this dan? i’m hoping theres a setting somewhere i’m just not seeing.

    let me know your thoughts on sound differnces of any changes you make….good,bad, or indifferent!

    looking fwd to it,

    blan

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  blan.
  • #18742

    D_Fru
    Participant

    Hi Blan
    I have never run into skipped tracks and have no thoughts on what may be causing that.. Are the skips coming from a hard drive, USB stick or streaming? Not sure but maybe if you tried a playlist from a drive only then a stick only you could at least eliminate a given source if it plays through from one or the other. That may give you some a direction to look. I will keep thinking and will try a few playlists this afternoon and see if I can reproduce the issue
    Dan

    • #18744

      blan
      Participant

      i have yet to get into any hard drives or usb sticks…..thats gonna be a whole nuther ball game in the education process! my computer experience is chromebook and ipad level. one day i plan to get a cd reader of some sort and load my collection of cd’s on a ssd or hard drive but it seems slightly redundant as there are very few titles i have that can’t be found within seconds off tidal. i may just save that money and put it into an audiphile grade single disc (right now i’ve got an older pioneer elite dv-f07 300 disc dvd/cd player….good but not great by any means!) do it all blue ray that plays dvd audio and sacd , then relegate the pioneer to random dvd duty. gonna have plant that seed with the wife!
      !
      my random skipping happens on the tracks queue in the library whether on tidal or roon which seems to me together but seperate….if you can follow that kind of abstract reasoning!
      it could be a setting on my tidal account not playing nice….i’ll look here in a minute.

      plug and play seems to mean plug it in and play with your stereo! …..but i suppose making it work is half the fun 😉

  • #18745

    D_Fru
    Participant

    I have been playing with playlists all afternoon (still am). So far no problems with track skipping. I have used playlists before but never paid very close attention if a track was skipped.

    Unlike you I am only using a hard drive not Tidal. I have ripped my entire collection to flac files and have bought several hi-res tracks from HDtracks. Maybe someone else using Tidal or other streaming will chime in with ideas on your playlist problem.

    I certainly agree on plug and play. Very easy setup but then clearing up the finer points is the challenge. Overall love the unit and the sound quality is great! The problems I have are minor and I think can be fixed if I mess with the router, cables and ethernet switch.

    Dan

  • #18746

    blan
    Participant

    well thanks for trying…

    i wonder if one can download music dirctly to a drive in network via tidal with just the discovery?
    tidal allows downloading…. i may have to get a hard drive and put it in network to see.

    did you try using the dual zone outputs yet?

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  blan.
  • #18748

    D_Fru
    Participant

    I’m not sure about copying from Tidal since I don’t use it yet. I think you have to stream from Tidal and not have the music file on a drive. I download files from HDtracks or rip cd’s to my computer then drag and drop it right into the roon app. The files are copied to the drive I have attached to the Discovery and are then available without the computer.

  • #18759

    blan
    Participant

    yesterday while messing around with some personally designated ‘test tracks’ from the ‘masters’ tracks (24/48) on tidal i reallized with all my changes to the discovery since initial ‘burnn in’, the ‘clean’ db level at my listening position has risen from from 99 db to 103 db…..now 4 db may not seem like much but it equates to quite a bit of sound real world.
    i measure this centerstage at my listening point (which is 11′ in front with speakers placed 9′ apart) this measurement is slightly subjective as its based on the point where i no longer hear ‘clean’ music across the board….i feel comfortable in my ability to decipher this point based on a lifetime of audiophilia 😉

    i also think i may be running into the amps limitations….the yamaha 803 has a decent amp section but she may get relegated to shop duty (need a new unit for the shop anyhow) always wanted a halo integrated! tall order i know but the wife just spent $3k on tile, soooo……!

    morel is……

    beware, high quality streaming may lead to overspending…..quite possibly divorce! (well hopefully not 😉 )

    blan

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  blan.
    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  blan.
    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  blan.
  • #18808

    blan
    Participant

    update for those that find this slightly interesting,

    had a glitch occur several times now during initiating play of a track…..the clock slips quite obviously (you sctually hear two sets of everything out of sync left to right) and hitting ‘back’ to replay straightens it up.
    i’m not sure if this is a result of the way i’ve set it up or if its a common occurrence when set up in a proper dual zone configuration…..so for now i’ve put it back to the single zone until i can get an opinion from elac whether or not setting up a left and right seperately from each zone might cause extra issues. i still notice a lesser sound stage when going back to the way its ‘supposed’ to be.
    what about it elac ? someone there must be either slightly amused or slightly annoyed (or both!) by this/me ? ; )

  • #18811

    D_Fru
    Participant

    I do not have mine set up as a separate left and right using both dac’s. I am only using one and have never had that problem.

    • #18813

      blan
      Participant

      hey dan,

      yah, you probably wouldn’t unless you had a dual zone setup and even then i’m not sure anyone would even notice if the other zone was in a different room.

      it certainly sounds better in that dual dac configuration but unless someone from elac can tell me that won’t hurt anything and the time slip is acceptable now and again i’m gonna err on the side of caution!

      have you tried any of the other upgrades?

      also which format do you use for your hard drive…..ext2,3,4 hfs ntfs or vfat ? just wondering because yours seems to work well for you, and these are the usb formats the discovery supports. or better yet which drive do you have?

  • #18824

    blan
    Participant

    gotta love the sink or swim approach!

    i just couldn’t take the fact that the sound was so much better with the dual dac setup and went back to playing with it and saw my ‘resync delay’ was set at zero and although its not supposed to reset the clock i thought maybe it might have that end result and after setting both zones to 2000 ms delay i’ve got a two’fer!
    it no longer skips tracks AND there is no longer a noticeable difference between the dual dac setup and just running both sides from zone 1 as it should be…..soundstage is just as open and clean,

    now you folks are probably thinking i’m just plain frikkin nuts by now!….and while i may be a little ocd i can tell you there was a definate sound difference in these changes….near as i can figure with the many different stream sources in my playlist the discovery needed time to get its ‘head straight’ between tracks . that is what that setting is for after all.

    would still like to hear some input from elac on all this……i can’t be the only one thats put the discovery through some stress testing for optimum sound!

    hey dan where is your resync delay set? being as you listen to complete albums it may not be an issue…..also thinking too much delay might affect gapless playback of albums also?

    i can honestly appreciate the flexibility designed into the discovery……seems like all streamers have their share of issues so its just par for the course i reckon.

    blan

  • #18828

    D_Fru
    Participant

    Hi Blan
    My external drive is NTFS and I have had no problems with it at all. I have at this time 1151 albums which is 14037 tracks so I have not yet used half the Elac’s capacity. The drive is a 2 gig WD Easystore which I backup to another of the same.

    I just this morning replaced my very old ethernet switch. and replaced all the old cat5 with cat6. It may be weeks before I can say if it helped the disconnect problems it happened so seldom.

    Great to hear that you solved the dropped tracks and delay with one tweak. I may try the dual zone thing sometime. My resync delay is set to zero as it was from the factory. I have not yet found a reason to change it.

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